Economy Matters podcast series

Tom Heintjes: Hello, and thanks for returning for this episode of the Economy Matters podcast. I'm Tom Heintjes, managing editor of the Atlanta Fed's Economy Matters magazine, and today I'm sitting down with Mike Chriszt, who is a vice president at the Atlanta Fed and a regional outreach officer. The last time we sat down to talk to Mike, he was just beginning an initiative reaching out to smaller communities in the Southeast—and not only talking to groups there about the Fed's mission, but also listening to their economic concerns. That was about two years ago, so I thought it would be a good time to sit down and talk with Mike about that initiative, and what he's learned from it. Mike, thanks for being with us today.

Michael Chriszt: Good to see you again, Tom.

The Atlanta Fed's Michael Chriszt. Photo by Stephen Nowland

Heintjes: Mike, as I just noted, you've been involved in your outreach initiative for about two years now. Longtime listeners to the podcast will recall when you were sitting in that chair and discussing the initiative, when you were just embarking on it. For the benefit of newer listeners, and to bring everyone up to speed, can you briefly describe what you've been doing, and what you hope to accomplish?

Chriszt: Sure. If you think back just a few years ago, we were coming out of the pandemic, and we worked together in Public Affairs at the time. And it was so important for us to get back out directly in front of people—when I say "us," I mean anybody from the Atlanta Fed—engaging directly in the communities that we serve, because we hadn't been doing it for a long time. And it became clear that we were missing such a big part of our district. We hadn't been going to smaller towns, we hadn't been visiting rural communities on a sustained basis...maybe once in a while we would. And so this initiative was meant to kind of refocus our attention on these important communities—places where we just hadn't been in a number of years.

Heintjes: I know it's easy to visit Miami, and visit Atlanta, and visit Nashville and large cities. But as you said, one of your objectives was to have a presence in smaller cities and towns. Why was this important to you, and to the Atlanta Fed overall?

Chriszt: That's a great question. For a couple of reasons—two things come to mind. One is—and I kind of touched on it a second ago—as a public service institution, I think it is so important for us—and really any public service institution—to connect directly with the people whom we serve. And as I mentioned, we just hadn't been doing that. So, number one was to go to places where we just hadn't been and talk to people about what their experiences are with regard to the economy, explain the Federal Reserve—that sort of thing. And the other reason it was important is because if we really want to build out an economic narrative of how our region is performing, we have to be inclusive. And part of that inclusivity means going to places—smaller towns, rural areas—and including what we learn from those areas into that story about how our economy is performing.

Heintjes: So, when you visit these places, what are the key messages you try to convey—and in general, what has your reception been like in these places?

Chriszt: So, the key messages—well, let me kind of explain it this way. The talks are very informal. I don't use Powerpoints unless they ask, because people who grew up on Powerpoints are kind of sick and tired of Powerpoints. I find talking about and looking at charts of economic data fascinating. I have found a unique thing that not everybody shares, so I don't bore people to death with charts about how the economy is performing. I talk about what the Federal Reserve is, what our purpose and function and mission are, a little bit about our history, because very few people understand how our central bank came to be, so I talk a little bit about that. I do talk about where the Fed sees the economy today, and where monetary policy is—and of course, I'm basically just taking Raphael's latest quotes about how he sees the economy. It's not Mike Chriszt's opinion about how the economy is performing. And especially with regard to monetary policy, it's so important—and so we both came from...or, you're in Public Affairs, I came from Public Affairs—that we speak with one voice, so as not to confuse people about how the Atlanta Fed sees the policy choices that are in front of them.

Heintjes: You mentioned Raphael—I should clarify that you mean Raphael Bostic, our bank president.

Chriszt: That was a little too familiar, wasn't it? [laughter]

Heintjes: Just so we're all on the same page here.

Chriszt: I'm going to get in trouble. Yes, "President Bostic," I should say.

Heintjes: I also asked you, in general, what has your reception been like?

Chriszt: Yes, reception has been fantastic. People have been very receptive. They've been very grateful that we take the time and spend our time listening to them and reaching out to their communities. One of the funny stories that I like to tell people is, one of my first visits was down in lower Alabama. I went to a town called Foley, Alabama. It's on the way to Gulf Shores—it's about 30 miles north of Gulf Shores, if you know the geography there. And before the meeting, I was mingling with some of the members—it was a Rotary Club meeting—and a lady came up to me and said, "What are you doing here? What's the Fed doing here?" And it kind of was a bit bemusing, because she was surprised that somebody from the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta would come all the way down to Foley to engage with their community. And it gave me an opportunity to share a little bit about what this initiative was all about. So it's been very grateful, very welcoming. They're willing to share their opinions about how their economy is performing. So, from that respect, it's been all very positive.

Heintjes: That's actually a great segue into something I wanted to get you to visit. When you talk to groups, no matter where they are, are there common themes or refrains you hear? Do folks everywhere have similar perceptions of the Federal Reserve?

Chriszt: Most everybody I've talked to understands that the Federal Reserve is an important institution. They are a bit unclear about how our decisions affect their daily lives, so getting an opportunity to explain that is important. Not many people are aware of how our mission has evolved, what our mission is today with regard to the dual mandate that Congress has given us: to keep inflation low and stable, and create conditions that maximize employment. So sharing those things has been—the reception I get from that is, "Well, I didn't know that" or "I wasn't clear about how that works." So, I think that is a part of the reception that I get, a part of the themes. Hardly anybody has heard the story of our history, how we came to pass, how we came to be. A few people know a little bit about it, but that back and forth is always, I think, very enlightening for folks.

Heintjes: Well, Mike, do you find that people who will show up to listen to a representative of the Atlanta Fed are already sort of predisposed to understanding the Fed and our role in the economy? In other words, do you find that you're reaching people who might be skeptical of the Fed—you know, that think we're in the pocket of Wall Street, and so forth? I'm not saying these meetings are echo chambers, but how do you try to reach all types of people?

Chriszt: That's a great question. I think the first thing, Tom, is that it's important that we don't judge people. We take them where they are, and they do come with their preconceptions about the Federal Reserve. And some of them aren't always positive, and it's not necessarily my role to convince people that we're a great institution, we do everything right. That's not what this is about. It's mainly just to try to explain based on facts, and explain what our mission is, where we see the economy. And for the questions that—and I do get these questions about things like political influence, and influence of big banks in New York. It's an opportunity to talk about the Federal Reserve's independence—which is, as you know, just a crucial part of who we are—and explain that to them. And so, I think people come away with some understanding. I don't know that I always convince people, because like I said, they come in with preconceptions, and sometimes if I could just move the needle a little bit and get them to think a little bit differently, then I consider that a win.

Heintjes: Well, as a meeting is breaking up and you're chatting with people more informally, do you ever find then that people say, "I now realize X" or "You really informed me about Y"?

Chriszt: There have been a lot of those interactions. One of the things I always say in my introduction, most of these meetings—especially with civic groups—they happen at lunchtime. They end at one o'clock. People need to get back to work. But I always say, if you don't get a chance to ask a question or if you want me to talk about something else, I'm always the last person to leave the room. And that's true—I never leave until everybody is gone, and I've answered everybody's questions. And a lot of people do come up to me, Tom, as you mentioned, and say, "I didn't know that" or "Can you talk about this a little bit more?" And so it gives an opportunity to do a little bit deeper dive into some of these really important topics.

Heintjes: But your business is not only about you talking to them, right? You're also there to listen. So, I wonder if the topics people want to discuss have changed over the time you've been doing this—for two years now, as we noted. The economy is different now from where it was two years ago. What sort of things do people talk to you about now versus then?

Chriszt: I think about that in this way: There are questions that are more cyclical about how the economy is performing today, and there are questions that are more structural. The cyclical questions have shifted away from inflation because, as you noted, a couple of years ago, inflation was well above our target. And that was the main question, or series of questions, and the biggest concern that people had. I don't get as many questions about inflation now. I still talk about it and the progress that the Fed has made in reducing the rate of inflation, and people still have questions about, "What is disinflation versus deflation?"—those kinds of things. But the cyclical questions have shifted more towards labor market questions and economic activity questions: "Does the Fed expect a recession?"—those kinds of questions. The more structural questions haven't changed all that much: a lot of questions about the impact of the deficit and the debt on our economic outlook. We get a lot of questions about digital currency and cryptocurrency, more kind of "financial structure" questions. Those are pretty consistent, but the cyclical ones have definitely shifted away from inflation and more towards growth and employment.

Heintjes: As you and I sit here today, it's September and we have an election coming up in the near future—and I want to tread lightly here, because we are an apolitical institution. But I imagine that people want to discuss politics, and that's a perfect opportunity for you to discuss the Fed's independence, the apolitical nature of our organization, and how politics don't factor into setting monetary policy, and so forth. Do you find that this apolitical, independent nature is something people generally know, or are you enlightening them about that?

Chriszt: You mentioned a couple of questions ago about skepticism, and the kinds of things that people have preconceptions about the Federal Reserve, and I mention in my prepared remarks the apolitical, nonpartisan nature of the Fed in the context of our independence to make policy decisions. And so I don't get as many questions about that, because I talk about it during my remarks. But there are skeptics, and there are people who will think, well, we are influenced by politics one way or the other. And all I could do is say, "Look, I've worked at the Federal Reserve for 35 years. For more than half of that time, I've had the opportunity to be at the table when our economists and policy advisers are briefing our Bank's president on where the economy is and giving advice on monetary policy." And I just tell them, "It never comes up. It never comes up. It doesn't come up at the FOMC meetings in Washington." And I invite people to visit the transcripts and the minutes of those meetings that are available on the Board of Governors' website, just to show them that there is no political influence at all. We are so laser-focused on our mission. We take the economy as it is, fiscal policy is Congress's domain. And I share that as best I can. I mentioned a second ago that I don't necessarily see my role to try to convince people that we're right, or we're doing all that kind of thing. But I do see it as my role to convince people that we are apolitical, we are nonpartisan—because that is so crucial to the job that we do.

Heintjes: And our ability to do it right. Now, Mike, I'm confident that folks have learned from you, but I would be willing to bet that you've also learned from them. Can you discuss an example of when you realized something like, "Gosh, I never thought of it like that before," or something like that?

Chriszt: Let me take a step back and kind of answer that a bit broader. I mentioned I've been here for 35-plus years, and one of the things that I'm always thankful for—that I'll always be grateful for—is that working here, you're always learning something new. So, there are always those moments of, "I hadn't thought about it that way." You're always adding to your knowledge base, just from being here and listening to the great staff that we have and learning from their expertise. I learned more about how smaller towns function by spending time there, so there are a lot of, "I didn't know it was that complicated to do this economic development project." So, the complexity, even in small towns, of all the interlocking parts of businesses, local governments, how regulations play into development plans—I had no idea it was as complicated as it is, so that's definitely one of those moments. When you think about how our economy has been performing over the last couple of years—we talked about inflation was very high a couple of years ago, it's come down some. That high inflation, I've come to understand, hits smaller towns a little bit harder than urban areas, in the sense that if transportation costs go up, they travel farther to go to work than a lot of people in urban areas do. If daycare costs go up, if it takes them longer to get to daycare, those costs will go up. The price of groceries—so there are a lot of fixed income folks in these populations. And labor shortages—that are thankfully kind of working their way, post-pandemic, out of the system—they affect smaller towns and businesses in small towns much more directly because the labor supply is smaller in those areas. So, if there's a job opening in a smaller community, they have a harder time filling it because the population is smaller. And that makes perfect sense, and it's one of those moments, "Why didn't I think of that? It makes so much sense." But when you talk to businesses and the struggles that they've had, and you talk to individuals and the issues that they've had with inflation, then it really—it's just a great reminder for folks that work here of how important the decisions that we make truly are, and how they directly affect people's lives.

Heintjes: Well, as you come home with these takeaways and observations, what do you do with them? I don't imagine you keep them to yourself.

Chriszt: I make a lot of really interesting contacts when I'm visiting places, and the people that I meet and the things that I learn, I share those with our regional executives from our Regional Economic Information Network program. I share those with our Community and Economic Development team—I just had a really great conversation with that team yesterday about a couple of recent trips that I've made, and some really interesting contacts that I think will be interesting for them and their work as they look into what their role is. And we share things, of course, with the research policy team as well that I think will help build out our narrative about how our economy is performing.

Heintjes: As we've been talking, your entire initiative is predicated on getting off the beaten path and visiting smaller towns and communities, and you've lived in the Southeast for literally decades. As you've traveled around to these places that are off the beaten path, have your impressions of the district changed in some way?

Chriszt: Absolutely. Tom, help me out—what's that quote from Mark Twain about travel: "travel eliminates prejudice and preconceptions," or something like that? There's this great quote from Mark Twain, I can't think of it off the top of my head. Oh, it's "travel is fatal to prejudices and narrowmindedness."

Heintjes: OK, I was a journalism major, not English, so bear with me.

Chriszt: OK, your question just made me think of that, because I did have my preconceptions about smaller towns and rural areas. I have driven through a lot throughout my lifetime, but I've never, until this initiative, stopped and stayed and engaged with the people that live there. The idea that small-town America is in desperate straits, it's dying economically, couldn't be further from the truth—but that's one of the things that I heard before this initiative. Absolutely, there are some places that are struggling, but there are some places in urban areas that are struggling as well. Some smaller towns are doing just fine, and others are thriving. So every place is a little bit different in that respect—where their economic journey is, so to speak. A couple of things that I've learned by going to these places, kind of thematically, that are very similar, is the towns that are doing OK have such great leadership and commitment from the business community. I mentioned I talk to civic clubs, the engagement of those civic clubs. I went to a chamber of commerce meeting in a small town. And usually when I do like chamber meetings in smaller towns, there are a handful of businesses that are there that attend. I walked into this room and there was close to a hundred people there. It just shows you the level of engagement that was there—and it was Alachua, Florida, to mention one of the places that I've been. The level of engagement, and I learned about their long-term strategic plan and how business and local governments, city and county, are getting together to push it forward. Those kinds of stories, I think...definitely one of the things that I've learned, the towns that are doing well have that level of activity, if you will, and deep commitment and strong leadership that is really—you leave with a sense of optimism, if that makes sense.

Heintjes: That's great. Mike, your undertaking was a novel one for the Atlanta Fed, but I know it was not necessarily designed to operate in perpetuity. What's the future of this initiative?

Chriszt: Right now, it's just me kind of doing it. And I think what I'd like to see happen, and what I'm working towards building a proposal that it become part and parcel of our Bank's outreach program—that when we think about outreach, we think about direct outreach to the public that we serve, and we include smaller towns and rural areas in that outreach, that we're proactive and we seek out opportunities rather than being reactive and waiting for somebody to call us. And if we really want to be a model public institution, we need to do those things to directly engage folks. And I think at the end of the day, the more we do this, the better we will be at making these important policy decisions that affect everybody's lives. And it's that understanding and that connectivity, direct connectivity with the folks that we serve, that I think is going to help us make, like I said, better decisions, more informed decisions, more inclusive decisions, about the economy, about different policies, and just increase our understanding of how things work.

Heintjes: You are correct.

Chriszt: So you are predisposed to that.

Heintjes: I know.

Chriszt: So, I'm from Ohio, where there's no barbecue tradition, so I've learned to appreciate different barbecues. I'm not going to say which is the best, because I don't want to say anything bad about all the places that I've been. But I will say that my own barbecue skills have improved immensely from visiting a number of these wonderful restaurants. And the thing that I take away the most is just how much—and not just barbecue places, but these small-town diners, small town retailers—just how hard they work at their craft and how much they care, and the level of service is always just wonderful. It's always been a great experience. So you're trying to put me on the spot. I'm not going to let you do it. I will say that barbecue in the Southeast is the best that I've had, hands down—no offense to my friends in Kansas City or Memphis.

Heintjes: Or in North Carolina.

Chriszt: Well, yes.

Heintjes: You are a master of diplomacy, I'll say that. And that brings us to the end of another episode of the Economy Matters podcast. Again, I'm Tom Heintjes, managing editor of the Atlanta Fed's Economy Matters magazine, and on the Atlanta Fed's website at atlantafed.org you'll be able to learn more about the Atlanta Fed and its role in the development of monetary policy. Thanks again for listening, and as always, I appreciate you spending some time with us, and I look forward to doing it again next month.